1
00:00:02,550 --> 00:00:01,189
i'm placing you under arrest for the

2
00:00:03,750 --> 00:00:02,560
future murder of sarah marks give the

3
00:00:05,110 --> 00:00:03,760
man a hand

4
00:00:08,310 --> 00:00:05,120
the future

5
00:00:13,990 --> 00:00:10,629
that's a short clip from the now almost

6
00:00:16,470 --> 00:00:14,000
20 year old movie minority report about

7
00:00:19,269 --> 00:00:16,480
a future where computers determine the

8
00:00:22,150 --> 00:00:19,279
guilt or innocence of people based on

9
00:00:24,150 --> 00:00:22,160
what they are likely to do in the future

10
00:00:26,710 --> 00:00:24,160
and even if you've never seen this movie

11
00:00:29,189 --> 00:00:26,720
i think you've probably heard this meme

12
00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:29,199
pop up more and more especially lately

13
00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:31,039
as there's all this advanced technology

14
00:00:34,229 --> 00:00:33,440
with a facial recognition software that

15
00:00:36,389 --> 00:00:34,239
can

16
00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:36,399
actually work better than the best lie

17
00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:37,600
detector

18
00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:40,559
there's also all sorts of predictive ai

19
00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:43,120
stuff that's sounding more and more like

20
00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:46,640
this minority report our strong ai

21
00:00:50,869 --> 00:00:48,480
learning machines will know what you're

22
00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:50,879
going to do before you do it kind of

23
00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:52,000
stuff

24
00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:53,600
and if you remember the last episode of

25
00:00:58,790 --> 00:00:56,160
skeptical you will see a strong

26
00:01:02,229 --> 00:00:58,800
connection with what we were exploring

27
00:01:04,469 --> 00:01:02,239
with ai expert andrew smart who works at

28
00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:04,479
google and is right in the middle of a

29
00:01:14,950 --> 00:01:12,390
of course the movie minority report

30
00:01:17,670 --> 00:01:14,960
starred tom cruise from the scientology

31
00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:17,680
mind control club and was directed by

32
00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:20,960
steven spielberg who if you're into this

33
00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:24,000
kind of stuff is known to screen

34
00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:27,040
ufo slash et movies for presidents and

35
00:01:32,950 --> 00:01:30,000
certainly seems very plugged into a lot

36
00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:32,960
of culture shaping movies

37
00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:34,960
but beyond all that this clip is

38
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:37,360
particularly relevant to today's

39
00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:40,320
interview with the very excellent dr

40
00:01:44,550 --> 00:01:42,560
doug matzke if you remember doug from

41
00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:44,560
the last time he's on skeptico he has a

42
00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:47,920
phd in quantum computing and he's really

43
00:01:53,270 --> 00:01:50,720
smart about all this ai machine learning

44
00:01:55,270 --> 00:01:53,280
quantum computing stuff and even though

45
00:01:57,749 --> 00:01:55,280
doug and i don't see everything the same

46
00:02:00,550 --> 00:01:57,759
way as you'll hear in this clip

47
00:02:02,870 --> 00:02:00,560
i see a common theme from you about

48
00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:02,880
people abusing their technology and

49
00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:03,840
power

50
00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:06,000
you know and so i think that's part of

51
00:02:11,350 --> 00:02:08,640
your concern about the big companies who

52
00:02:13,589 --> 00:02:11,360
have control over the many facets of our

53
00:02:15,190 --> 00:02:13,599
life you know the microsofts and the

54
00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:15,200
googles so the question is how do we

55
00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:17,920
take any technology and not abuse it

56
00:02:22,309 --> 00:02:19,760
and that's a concern i hear that's a

57
00:02:24,229 --> 00:02:22,319
concern for you as a concern for me too

58
00:02:26,229 --> 00:02:24,239
that's not my concern whether it's a

59
00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:26,239
concern you're interested in that right

60
00:02:31,670 --> 00:02:28,239
i think this is a why evil matters

61
00:02:33,830 --> 00:02:31,680
question because google is in the social

62
00:02:36,630 --> 00:02:33,840
engineering business

63
00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:36,640
whether they like it or not

64
00:02:43,589 --> 00:02:39,040
but the question is are they

65
00:02:45,910 --> 00:02:43,599
evil are the people behind the a i

66
00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:45,920
evil that's ultimately what we want to

67
00:02:48,710 --> 00:02:47,440
know

68
00:02:51,030 --> 00:02:48,720
so even though we don't agree on

69
00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:51,040
everything i do think we sync up on the

70
00:02:57,030 --> 00:02:54,720
deeper philosophical and really

71
00:02:58,309 --> 00:02:57,040
spiritual questions about how we should

72
00:02:59,990 --> 00:02:58,319
understand

73
00:03:03,589 --> 00:03:00,000
and relate to

74
00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:03,599
this ai thing which is very very real

75
00:03:10,309 --> 00:03:06,720
and is happening right now and is not

76
00:03:12,470 --> 00:03:10,319
that far off from a minority report kind

77
00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:12,480
of situation

78
00:03:16,470 --> 00:03:14,560
lots to cover here's my interview with

79
00:03:18,309 --> 00:03:16,480
dr doug matzke

80
00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:18,319
welcome to skeptica where we explore

81
00:03:23,190 --> 00:03:20,720
controversial science and spirituality

82
00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:23,200
with leading researchers thinkers and

83
00:03:29,509 --> 00:03:25,760
their critics i'm your host alex sicaris

84
00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:29,519
and today we welcome dr doug matzke back

85
00:03:36,070 --> 00:03:32,879
to skeptico doug is the author of deep

86
00:03:39,509 --> 00:03:36,080
reality why source science may be the

87
00:03:43,350 --> 00:03:39,519
key to understanding human potential

88
00:03:46,149 --> 00:03:43,360
and the last time doug was on

89
00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:46,159
i learned so much both preparing for the

90
00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:48,560
interview and then in the actual

91
00:03:53,509 --> 00:03:50,720
interview with doug that

92
00:03:56,630 --> 00:03:53,519
i've been dying to get him back

93
00:03:59,350 --> 00:03:56,640
and then last episode i ran across and

94
00:04:02,550 --> 00:03:59,360
felt very fortunate to get an interview

95
00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:02,560
with an ai artificial intelligence guy

96
00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:03,920
from google

97
00:04:07,830 --> 00:04:06,560
named andrew smart and i just posted

98
00:04:10,229 --> 00:04:07,840
that interview

99
00:04:12,149 --> 00:04:10,239
and i sent it to doug i kind of sent him

100
00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:12,159
the book beforehand and said hey what do

101
00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:14,319
you think about this he gave me some

102
00:04:18,710 --> 00:04:16,720
really interesting feedback before and

103
00:04:22,390 --> 00:04:18,720
then i sent him a pre-release copy

104
00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:22,400
afterwards and i just think that

105
00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:24,800
that can kind of take us

106
00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:28,240
in some new places in terms of this

107
00:04:34,469 --> 00:04:30,720
incredible incredible work that he's

108
00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:34,479
done so doug welcome back to skeptico

109
00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:36,800
thanks for coming on

110
00:04:43,350 --> 00:04:39,680
thanks a lot i was looking forward to it

111
00:04:45,030 --> 00:04:43,360
so before we get started remind people a

112
00:04:47,030 --> 00:04:45,040
little bit about

113
00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:47,040
your background

114
00:04:51,909 --> 00:04:50,000
phd in quantum computing that ought to

115
00:04:53,270 --> 00:04:51,919
immediately send people on a little bit

116
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:53,280
of a dude

117
00:04:58,790 --> 00:04:55,440
and then about this book really really

118
00:05:00,629 --> 00:04:58,800
quite amazing book uh deep reality why

119
00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:00,639
source science may be the key to

120
00:05:05,430 --> 00:05:03,520
understanding human potential

121
00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:05,440
my background is

122
00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:07,600
regular computer science right

123
00:05:11,189 --> 00:05:09,919
and but i knew that metaphysics had

124
00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:11,199
something to say

125
00:05:15,909 --> 00:05:12,880
about science

126
00:05:18,870 --> 00:05:15,919
back when i was in college okay so

127
00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:18,880
almost 50 years ago and so i go well

128
00:05:23,029 --> 00:05:21,039
maybe there's some relationship between

129
00:05:24,469 --> 00:05:23,039
the science behind metaphysics and

130
00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:24,479
computer science

131
00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:27,520
and so a lot of my career has been

132
00:05:31,189 --> 00:05:28,880
learning you know more about computer

133
00:05:32,550 --> 00:05:31,199
science to the point that i got a phd in

134
00:05:34,629 --> 00:05:32,560
quantum computing because quantum

135
00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:34,639
computing was like different than all

136
00:05:38,950 --> 00:05:36,160
the other computing that we'd known

137
00:05:41,189 --> 00:05:38,960
about and this this was already 20 years

138
00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:41,199
ago that i've had my phd in quantum

139
00:05:45,029 --> 00:05:43,039
computing which

140
00:05:47,430 --> 00:05:45,039
back then quantum computing was just

141
00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:47,440
starting the way it is now compared to

142
00:05:51,189 --> 00:05:49,120
now so

143
00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:51,199
so but i've continued to hang out with

144
00:05:55,430 --> 00:05:52,400
mystics

145
00:05:57,189 --> 00:05:55,440
remote viewers people who are healers

146
00:05:58,950 --> 00:05:57,199
people who are telepaths

147
00:06:01,590 --> 00:05:58,960
and so i keep trying to look for the

148
00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:01,600
intersection of those two areas if that

149
00:06:07,110 --> 00:06:04,720
makes sense and and so i call that whole

150
00:06:09,029 --> 00:06:07,120
area i call it source science

151
00:06:10,629 --> 00:06:09,039
based on because most people call this

152
00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:10,639
like from a law of attraction language

153
00:06:14,230 --> 00:06:12,240
they say well this is source energy

154
00:06:16,230 --> 00:06:14,240
that's that's the way they use it now i

155
00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:16,240
don't like the word energy

156
00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:18,400
because it's mostly information so i

157
00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:20,000
call it source science because it's the

158
00:06:23,189 --> 00:06:21,600
science of

159
00:06:25,110 --> 00:06:23,199
what's the source of all of this not

160
00:06:27,830 --> 00:06:25,120
only in quantum mechanics

161
00:06:29,430 --> 00:06:27,840
but thought itself is i believe overlaps

162
00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:29,440
with that so hopefully that's a good

163
00:06:34,469 --> 00:06:31,840
enough introduction i mean it isn't it

164
00:06:36,230 --> 00:06:34,479
isn't in that it's a kind of

165
00:06:39,749 --> 00:06:36,240
that's the world

166
00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:39,759
kind of it's the whole thing you know

167
00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:40,479
but

168
00:06:43,510 --> 00:06:42,560
you know um and some of this will kind

169
00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:43,520
of

170
00:06:48,710 --> 00:06:47,759
about but that's so okay because it took

171
00:06:52,230 --> 00:06:48,720
me

172
00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:52,240
your background your material in your

173
00:06:57,270 --> 00:06:55,120
book to really kind of get this at a

174
00:07:00,390 --> 00:06:57,280
deeper and deeper level because you are

175
00:07:01,909 --> 00:07:00,400
just a super super smart guy and

176
00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:01,919
i feel like you're always working to

177
00:07:06,230 --> 00:07:04,000
kind of dumb this down to a level where

178
00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:06,240
we can all understand it

179
00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:08,720
i wanted to return to this intuition you

180
00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:12,160
had about there being a deeper

181
00:07:15,830 --> 00:07:13,840
real connection

182
00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:15,840
between physics

183
00:07:22,790 --> 00:07:17,759
computing

184
00:07:24,629 --> 00:07:22,800
math if you will like geometric algebra

185
00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:24,639
and just those three

186
00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:26,160
and then we can make the leap to the

187
00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:28,240
metaphysics which is kind of like a

188
00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:30,960
whole space shot thing okay

189
00:07:34,870 --> 00:07:32,160
so

190
00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:34,880
computing we always

191
00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:36,560
turns out people have been computing for

192
00:07:39,029 --> 00:07:38,160
a long time because you know we had

193
00:07:41,029 --> 00:07:39,039
these

194
00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:41,039
ways of cataloging

195
00:07:44,869 --> 00:07:43,280
censuses you know

196
00:07:47,749 --> 00:07:44,879
with punch cards

197
00:07:49,670 --> 00:07:47,759
since you know since the 1800s okay they

198
00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:49,680
had some some way of cataloging they had

199
00:07:53,990 --> 00:07:52,240
these ancient tabulating machines so

200
00:07:55,990 --> 00:07:54,000
computing has been going on the abacus

201
00:07:57,749 --> 00:07:56,000
is really old people have been computing

202
00:07:59,189 --> 00:07:57,759
for a long time it's only when we the

203
00:08:01,350 --> 00:07:59,199
modern age of the invention of the

204
00:08:02,869 --> 00:08:01,360
transistor where we could really start

205
00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:02,879
building computers that were really

206
00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:05,039
powerful okay and in fact they're

207
00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:07,680
getting 50 percent faster and twice as

208
00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:11,039
fast um and 50 smaller every two years

209
00:08:16,869 --> 00:08:14,160
for the last 30 generations okay so 2 to

210
00:08:18,550 --> 00:08:16,879
the 30th is a really small more powerful

211
00:08:21,270 --> 00:08:18,560
computer than it was the original that's

212
00:08:23,110 --> 00:08:21,280
called moore's law okay so the question

213
00:08:24,629 --> 00:08:23,120
is when you get down to the very bottom

214
00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:24,639
you keep scaling and scaling scaling

215
00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:26,800
what do you get well physicists had been

216
00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:28,400
thinking about that

217
00:08:33,269 --> 00:08:30,800
specifically hold on doug because you

218
00:08:35,829 --> 00:08:33,279
realize you just made a switch i don't

219
00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:35,839
know if it was conscious or subconscious

220
00:08:41,430 --> 00:08:38,800
but you made the switch from computing

221
00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:41,440
to physics and you said physics gets

222
00:08:44,949 --> 00:08:43,360
further and further down

223
00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:44,959
and that's what you're really saying is

224
00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:47,040
because you could take you could take

225
00:08:52,150 --> 00:08:49,200
and i'd like you to do it you could take

226
00:08:54,790 --> 00:08:52,160
us through physics has been around for a

227
00:08:57,829 --> 00:08:54,800
long time and the apple falling off the

228
00:09:00,550 --> 00:08:57,839
tree but there was no intuition

229
00:09:02,389 --> 00:09:00,560
at that point that these two

230
00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:02,399
somehow came together

231
00:09:06,550 --> 00:09:04,480
yeah absolutely

232
00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:06,560
some of the earliest people were like

233
00:09:10,070 --> 00:09:08,640
feynman said there's he has a famous

234
00:09:12,550 --> 00:09:10,080
lecture where he says there's a lot of

235
00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:12,560
room down there and essentially enough

236
00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:14,640
is very physicist specifically people

237
00:09:18,710 --> 00:09:16,800
are working like on semiconductors which

238
00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:18,720
we've known about since the invention of

239
00:09:22,630 --> 00:09:20,399
the transistors in the late

240
00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:22,640
um 40s and early 50s when they started

241
00:09:25,829 --> 00:09:24,640
building semiconductors that he says

242
00:09:27,030 --> 00:09:25,839
there's a lot of room down there we

243
00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:27,040
could build computers smaller and

244
00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:29,360
smaller and smaller down to the physical

245
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:31,360
limits that we can with physics like

246
00:09:35,670 --> 00:09:33,760
atoms and stuff like that so people have

247
00:09:37,430 --> 00:09:35,680
been thinking about this for a long time

248
00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:37,440
it's just technology hadn't caught up

249
00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:40,080
with their thoughts finally in 1981

250
00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:41,760
there was a fist comp conference where

251
00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:43,040
they were looking at the connection

252
00:09:46,389 --> 00:09:44,640
between physics and computing and

253
00:09:48,949 --> 00:09:46,399
feynman was the keynote speaker of that

254
00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:48,959
and tom toffley was the was the mate was

255
00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:51,120
you know ran that conference um out of

256
00:09:55,670 --> 00:09:54,080
uh mit okay and so that was really the

257
00:09:57,509 --> 00:09:55,680
and you can find those

258
00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:57,519
those that really that all those papers

259
00:10:01,030 --> 00:10:00,000
are in there in the uh in a journal out

260
00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:01,040
there so

261
00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:03,120
um so just realize that people have been

262
00:10:06,870 --> 00:10:05,040
talking about this for a long time and

263
00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:06,880
then all of a sudden ralph landauer came

264
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:08,720
around and showed that if you erase

265
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,920
information you can't ignore it right so

266
00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:13,760
that means you can't just throw

267
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:16,480
information away and and expect it to be

268
00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:19,040
okay because it violates entropy

269
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:21,440
and so and that was in the 60s okay so

270
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:23,440
people have been dodging around this

271
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:25,839
dancing around this this story between

272
00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:28,320
physics and computing and so finally i

273
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:30,480
had the other two fist conferences in 92

274
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,600
and 94 and that sort of like

275
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:36,000
catapulted me in deeper understanding of

276
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:38,000
that and then i decided to work on a phd

277
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:40,000
in fisc you know and quantum computing

278
00:10:45,829 --> 00:10:43,760
in 97 through 2001 and so you know it's

279
00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:45,839
like how do you how do you learn about

280
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:47,120
this we have to figure out take

281
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,680
opportunities to you know go get a phd

282
00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:51,519
in it which was paid for by texas

283
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,000
instruments thank you very much right

284
00:10:58,550 --> 00:10:55,680
and

285
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,560
so the point is computers keep getting

286
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,399
smaller moore's law

287
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:02,000
they've been warned hold on even even

288
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,600
before you go back there because again i

289
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:05,440
feel like you just kind of

290
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,640
covered the world there and we need to

291
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:10,720
we need to break it down i'm just i'm

292
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,399
just slowing down so i can follow it

293
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:14,480
doug you're not doing you're not doing

294
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:16,720
anything wrong i just need to follow it

295
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:18,480
so when feynman

296
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:20,640
that is richard feynman

297
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:21,680
famous

298
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:23,600
caltech

299
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:26,480
genius nobel prize winner worked on the

300
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,040
atom bomb vineman

301
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:30,800
says there's plenty of room at the

302
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,000
bottom

303
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,959
that is generally associated with

304
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:36,480
nanotechnology

305
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,360
right that's what's happening and

306
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:39,279
computing though too

307
00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:42,079
that's your insight that is your

308
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:45,279
brilliant insight right because everyone

309
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:47,920
listens to that fineman quote and they

310
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:51,279
go oh he means we can make uh uh

311
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,000
buckyballs and you know string stuff

312
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,240
together down there at the bottom and

313
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,959
they're right to a certain extent but

314
00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:01,519
what you're pointing out is that

315
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:05,200
feynman's intuition is that as we get

316
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:06,880
further down

317
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,320
our frenemies our colleagues over in

318
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:11,839
computing

319
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:15,920
they start to be sounding a lot like us

320
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,639
and maybe there's this kind of deeper

321
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:21,200
connection and again intuitively because

322
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,079
we don't do it so feynman is both this

323
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:26,480
shut up and calculate guy like just kind

324
00:12:31,629 --> 00:12:29,200
of do it and he's also this physicist

325
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,639
engineering guy like make all this

326
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,320
nanotechnology stuff but as you point

327
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:37,200
out at the same time these guys

328
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:39,760
are starting to see the computer

329
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,800
connection because computers are growing

330
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:44,959
more and more powerful and what they can

331
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:47,680
do with information and information

332
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,000
theory and all the rest of that stuff is

333
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:52,399
getting to look so they're starting to

334
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,480
see this now the other thing that you

335
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,399
added that puts you right in the middle

336
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,959
of this is that these conferences where

337
00:13:01,670 --> 00:13:00,000
these

338
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,680
genius people

339
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:04,240
were meeting and having these brilliant

340
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,519
insights

341
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:07,920
ran for a while and then they kind of

342
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:10,320
stopped but you said

343
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,600
this is a way for things to move forward

344
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:15,839
we should reboot

345
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,399
those conferences and you did

346
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:20,560
and what came out of them was pretty

347
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:23,120
amazing and it also then

348
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:26,800
puts you into okay i need to go and

349
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:29,920
pursue a phd to explore this intuition

350
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,480
you had about this connection

351
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,480
right absolutely

352
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,399
so just

353
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,079
i'm going to connect the one last thing

354
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:40,880
about physics and computing okay

355
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:42,079
all

356
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:45,440
computers have to use some kind

357
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:47,440
of implementation some kind of physical

358
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,639
implementation

359
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,320
and they've been doing that for these 30

360
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:52,480
generations right

361
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,800
the point is is as you get so small

362
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,920
pretty soon

363
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:57,440
you have you can't be a transistor

364
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:00,079
anymore because you the gate which is 7

365
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:02,720
molecules thick stops acting like a gate

366
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:05,199
it's just on all the time so you're

367
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,480
limited

368
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:08,800
by what you can compute based on the

369
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:10,959
materials and the processes and the

370
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:13,760
physics behind all that that you can do

371
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:15,199
wires

372
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:16,399
are copper

373
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,600
the semiconductor the current is

374
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:21,360
supposed to flow on this after you get

375
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:23,040
them so small

376
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:25,040
the dielectric that keeps them from

377
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,480
talking to each other shorting each

378
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,720
other out comes so thin

379
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:30,480
that they start talking to each other

380
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,639
like a tunneling so quantum mechanics

381
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:34,880
properties starts happening at the

382
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:37,040
macroscopic scale because you can't so

383
00:14:42,949 --> 00:14:40,639
the point is physics and materials

384
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,959
is part of this computing infrastructure

385
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,040
and the key to the genius of the moore's

386
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:47,279
law is that they says well they

387
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,120
predicted it was going to die ten years

388
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,000
ago okay now they're for sure gonna die

389
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:53,839
in the next 10 years because they're

390
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,320
down to two nanometers well you can't

391
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,120
even use light anymore to mask build

392
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:01,920
masks you have to use near ultraviolet

393
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,480
and there none of your lenses work none

394
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:06,959
of your masking techniques ibm is the

395
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,160
first one to announce that they're

396
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,000
building a two nanometer well they're

397
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:12,240
not going to go down to maybe they'll go

398
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,000
down to a one maybe they'll down to go

399
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,079
down to a half nanometer but they're not

400
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,079
going to go any smaller so end of

401
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,920
moore's law

402
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:21,360
at some point

403
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,360
by definition

404
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,519
because what does moore's law say it's

405
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:28,240
the same process every two years well

406
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:29,839
even if you can go one more generation

407
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:31,120
you're not going to do it another two or

408
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,480
three or four

409
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,160
so something has to give and that's why

410
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,000
i started working on quantum computing

411
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:38,639
because quantum computing sort of like

412
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,639
escapes the classical box that we're

413
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,800
bound in so again

414
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,199
that's great there's again kind of a lot

415
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:47,360
to kind of process there

416
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,519
one thing i'd pick up on

417
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:51,680
it was a quote that from our last

418
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,199
interview you know you said relativity

419
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,519
works whether you believe it or not you

420
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:00,000
also said i think by implication

421
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:03,519
these laws of quantum mechanics

422
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:06,560
work whether we believe in them or not

423
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:08,240
and i think that's what your example

424
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:11,360
just said so if you put those wires

425
00:16:17,189 --> 00:16:14,000
together then we start having these

426
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:17,199
weird quantum effects whether we like it

427
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:19,920
or not but the the other part of that

428
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:22,639
too is what you're saying is that our

429
00:16:28,470 --> 00:16:25,920
satellite communication works

430
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:28,480
because we're following the quantum

431
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:31,680
mechanical laws you know and and that

432
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,480
yeah

433
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,800
and relativity and relativity right the

434
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:36,320
sinking of the clocks and that works

435
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:38,959
whether you it's not a belief

436
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,320
thing it's science

437
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:43,920
well we we have this whole thing about

438
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,160
science and you know it's it it's a

439
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,920
shuttle science that works not just the

440
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:49,600
political part of science but the

441
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:51,519
science that's the pragmatic i'm an

442
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:54,079
engineer i'm pragmatic i want to make

443
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:57,279
things work well how does the mind work

444
00:17:02,550 --> 00:16:59,440
there's there's my pragmatism coming to

445
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,560
roost on that subject exactly exactly

446
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,559
and that's where i want to go next

447
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,640
because that's where i think it gets

448
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:08,640
interesting so

449
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:11,919
the the key point here is so you you had

450
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:14,400
this intuition you saw it coming you

451
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,280
know physics computing boom and then you

452
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:19,600
saw math too which you know

453
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:22,000
math is important too you know this

454
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:24,160
whole thing of geometric algebra thing

455
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:25,839
is brilliant people cover it in the book

456
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:26,559
it's

457
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:28,079
way over my head and out of scope for

458
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,000
this interview but then where this takes

459
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,160
you is into metaphysics and that's what

460
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,400
i want to kind of talk about because the

461
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:37,200
last time you were on skeptico i didn't

462
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:40,880
give you the full skeptical treatment

463
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,549
but i think we're gonna have to go there

464
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:48,559
this time okay because

465
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:49,679
here's the thing

466
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,400
like you threw out a phrase

467
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,640
law of attraction not a phrase an idea a

468
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,600
concept and the book

469
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:58,799
kind of

470
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:00,559
talks a lot about that has a lot about

471
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:02,960
to say even the title of the book uh is

472
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,120
it the key to understanding our human

473
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:08,160
potential i think we think about that in

474
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,000
different ways so i want you to tell me

475
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,160
how you think something like the law of

476
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,720
attraction plays into

477
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:18,720
this aspect of human potential that

478
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,240
you're talking about

479
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:22,240
you've probably had personally and i

480
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,360
know other people who do too

481
00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:25,120
coincidences right

482
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,720
that you you go

483
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,320
i was thinking about somebody they

484
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,799
called i was thinking about

485
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,720
uh i was thinking oh there's a cop up

486
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:34,240
there and sure enough you slow down and

487
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,679
there's a cop up there there's these

488
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,440
intuitions coincidences you can call

489
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,840
coincidences you can call them

490
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:41,280
intuitions

491
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,000
so those things where you know those

492
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:46,240
aren't classical computing concepts at

493
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:47,520
all okay

494
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:50,000
and so where did they come from right

495
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:50,720
so

496
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:56,320
the infrastructure

497
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,000
okay

498
00:19:01,669 --> 00:19:00,240
that science would have to say something

499
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:01,679
about metaphysics right that's what

500
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:03,120
you're wanting me to connect science and

501
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:05,360
metaphysics right

502
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,360
so so yeah this whole category of stuff

503
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:09,280
that we would call metaphysics right

504
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:11,280
yeah right and so

505
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:12,080
what

506
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:13,840
there's a slide i have out there in my

507
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:16,160
latest talk that i just gave on the

508
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:17,840
other day that and it's out there in

509
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:21,120
other talks as well i catalog all of the

510
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,799
um kinds of metaphysics and what kind of

511
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:24,400
phenomena they are a sense of

512
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:25,760
information

513
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:28,000
spatial spatial properties

514
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,919
temporal properties and you realize that

515
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:31,760
most metaphysics has nothing to do with

516
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:32,960
energy

517
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,440
it has all to do with information do you

518
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:36,960
have a near-death experience it's like

519
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,120
you're visiting virtual reality like a

520
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,600
movie theater if you have a

521
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:43,919
astral projection the same thing if you

522
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,760
have telepathy you're getting

523
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,160
information there's no energy in any of

524
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,240
that only time that energy shows up is

525
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:52,559
if you have a psychokinesis experiment

526
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,160
and you're actually changing something

527
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:55,679
in the physical world you go well how do

528
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,760
you do that unless it's energy well it

529
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:59,840
turns out entropy is the key between

530
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:02,240
those two you if you can change the

531
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:04,400
entropy of a system you're changing its

532
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,799
effective energy well

533
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:09,200
entropy is also an information concept

534
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,400
it turns out

535
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:12,640
even in a black hole the surface area of

536
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,840
a black hole

537
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,000
is measured its surface area is called

538
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,799
its entropy and its units is bits so at

539
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,880
physics level entropy and bits are tied

540
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,159
together so

541
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,159
that's that's where information comes in

542
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:25,919
entropy and information are tied to

543
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:28,720
physics in in that way through entropy

544
00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,400
okay so it says okay maybe the human

545
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:34,320
is dealing with information at such a

546
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:35,360
level

547
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,480
that it can manipulate the entropy of a

548
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:40,400
system and most computation is also

549
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:43,360
entropy in other words computation works

550
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:44,880
even like due to

551
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,880
due to landauer's principle because

552
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,480
entropy is involved with physical

553
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:51,440
computing right and you essentially your

554
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,000
your if you just let randomness

555
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:56,080
completely happen all the time we would

556
00:20:59,430 --> 00:20:57,760
have no answers no computing would be

557
00:21:01,830 --> 00:20:59,440
done everything would be random and you

558
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,840
would get no concrete focus

559
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,919
answer to your question right

560
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,200
but that's

561
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,080
the opposite of entropy right it's it's

562
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:10,000
it's putting more order in the system so

563
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,000
how so that's the question how does the

564
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:14,720
human mind create more order especially

565
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,720
in all this range of phenomena that we

566
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:19,120
see in metaphysics it's all about order

567
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:22,159
out instead of chaos so

568
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,840
see and that's where i think we'd

569
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,120
probably

570
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,600
disagree a little bit because

571
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:29,520
i think if we if we took what you're

572
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,880
saying like

573
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:33,360
first of all you're making the leap that

574
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:36,640
has to be made has to be made from

575
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:37,679
science

576
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:38,480
yes

577
00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:41,679
so science as we know it materialistic

578
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:43,600
you are an illusion because

579
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:45,840
consciousness is an illusion so just do

580
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,240
what i say we we have to get past that

581
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,000
so we have to

582
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,159
try and figure out all these things that

583
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,320
are we've said are on the fringe but are

584
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,640
really smacking us in the face so right

585
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:58,799
whether it's intuition coincidence

586
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:00,400
near-death experience you know just

587
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,320
smacks you in the faith after death

588
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:04,720
communication smacks you in the face so

589
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:07,280
you're you're you're trying to kind of

590
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:09,600
wrestle those to the ground but i think

591
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,400
if we take what we know about science

592
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,559
that kind of science i don't think it

593
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,400
fits in the in the models that you're

594
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,559
talking about at least not at that point

595
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,720
okay i just sent you at the last minute

596
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:22,640
so you probably barely had a chance to

597
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:23,840
look at it but

598
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:26,240
julia mossbridge is this woman i think

599
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:29,120
she's at ions now when i interviewed her

600
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,600
she was dr julia mossbridge at

601
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,679
northwestern university and she did this

602
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:35,760
kind of clever experiment and i titled

603
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,320
it men like to be right duh

604
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:41,360
and her experiment is kind of taking up

605
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:44,320
dean raiden's famous pre-sentiment

606
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:47,280
experiment if people remember that

607
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,240
you know

608
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,320
dean raiden sets up a computer and the

609
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,480
computer selects an image and then he

610
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:54,640
measures your reaction to it and it

611
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:58,799
turns out your reaction is before

612
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:00,799
although those are kind of funny terms

613
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:02,960
when we talk about space time

614
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,400
your physical reaction either your skin

615
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:08,640
or your eye dilation or any of those

616
00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:11,440
things can actually shown to be

617
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:13,120
before the image is actually even

618
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,840
selected by the computer but here's the

619
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,760
part that i guess i think kind of throws

620
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,360
a wrench in what you're saying

621
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,600
mossbridge went one step further and she

622
00:23:26,230 --> 00:23:23,919
got these people together and since

623
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,240
she's kind as a psychology background

624
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:29,200
treated him like a psychology experiment

625
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:31,280
and got the guys in one group and the

626
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,400
girls in another group and said hey guys

627
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,280
i think i want to see who's right more

628
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,240
than anyone else and i'll give you more

629
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,640
money if you're right don't you want to

630
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:44,640
be right here's what you have to be

631
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,919
right about

632
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:47,760
picking the image that's going to come

633
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,080
up next and she found a statistical

634
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:52,400
difference between men and women in

635
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:54,880
terms of how the the experiment was

636
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:57,200
framed now if i haven't explained it

637
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,279
right let me go back and recap one

638
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,919
detail there's no way you can be right

639
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,360
about this

640
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,400
it's random it's randomly selected by

641
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:08,640
the computer before you make your

642
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:11,679
selection right so there's there's no

643
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:14,240
way to be quote unquote right

644
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:17,840
but the differences she found i think is

645
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:21,520
the the the problem area it's not about

646
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:23,840
i mean maybe you can speculate it's

647
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:25,919
about entropy or it's about all this

648
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,000
other stuff but what i think we all have

649
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:30,799
an intuitive sense for it's about all

650
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:33,919
the people stuff that we run into all

651
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,520
the time it's about why we can't always

652
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:40,480
communicate as effectively as we want to

653
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:44,000
with the people we really love or why we

654
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:46,799
are drawn to certain people and are not

655
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:49,600
drawn to other people it's extremely

656
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:53,600
messy and as screwed up as psychology

657
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:54,799
can be

658
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:57,919
they are pointing to something real that

659
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,799
is way way more complex at this point

660
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:02,799
than anything we're even close to

661
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:06,720
understanding with physics or

662
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,679
ai or anything like that what what are

663
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,559
your thoughts about that uh hypothesis

664
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,640
i'm not i'm not familiar with the

665
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,360
details of of this i'm familiar with

666
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,600
general pre-sentient experiments okay

667
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:21,600
that dean did and other people did i

668
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:23,039
mean obviously it's been replicated a

669
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,720
whole bunch of places

670
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:25,440
but

671
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:26,640
in general

672
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:29,039
if you have

673
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,600
right that you have of targets that

674
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:35,360
you're targeting you know the classic

675
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:36,799
four cards and you want to pick which

676
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,120
one of the four cards um that the person

677
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,799
is going to be picking right and there

678
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:42,880
and they're statistically higher that

679
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,679
they pick up somebody who's telepathic

680
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:48,320
or psychic or whatever can have a higher

681
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,919
statistics than one out of four which

682
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:51,600
would be the random case right so

683
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:53,919
anytime you have statistics

684
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:56,960
and you have abnormal statistics in any

685
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,120
experiment that means there's usually

686
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,440
some kind of mechanism supporting those

687
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:03,600
statistics that's what bell's theorem

688
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:04,799
was all about

689
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:07,360
you know that entanglement shows that

690
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:10,000
you have statistics that are not

691
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:11,039
possible

692
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:13,919
using regular classical statistics

693
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:15,520
okay and you can say right let's make

694
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,360
sure we're talking about the same thing

695
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,520
i'm not disagreeing with any of that i'm

696
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:20,960
saying if you try and put that in an

697
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:23,919
experiment i can blow your experiment up

698
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:26,480
just by doing what julia mossbridge does

699
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,799
just get all the bros together and say

700
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,720
hey man grab a beer and i'll tell you

701
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,720
what you can do it you know here's what

702
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,400
you got to do

703
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:37,039
well maybe it's maybe it's motivational

704
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:40,000
but maybe i can also go and you know

705
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:42,559
look deeply into the people i love i

706
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,279
quote unquote love and maybe that'll

707
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:47,760
blow up your experiment so i can add all

708
00:26:52,789 --> 00:26:50,400
these human factor human element kind of

709
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,799
things that blow up your experiment in a

710
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,799
way that you can't pull that out and

711
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:56,640
tease that out you're gonna have to just

712
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:58,960
throw up your arms and go oh there's

713
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,720
people involved so i get that you can

714
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,880
get us to step one but i don't think he

715
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:04,720
can get us to step two

716
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,120
actually you can because

717
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,200
you you look at what they did with the

718
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,960
the t the maharishi effect you know

719
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,480
where they had meditators going to town

720
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,320
and it would lower the crime rate yeah

721
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:16,320
i'm not sure i believe that but okay

722
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:17,919
group dynamics

723
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,880
amplifies the energy the intention

724
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,120
and it's the same thing with the with

725
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,520
the uh you know this isn't my research

726
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,679
by the way i'm just i'm just reporting

727
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,000
it to you okay um you're interpreting it

728
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,480
though you're you're interpreting it

729
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,480
as is

730
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:36,799
the last point about group thing is okay

731
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,440
the the random event generator the world

732
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:40,960
random event generators that they did

733
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:42,399
for princeton engineering anomaly

734
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:45,279
research center they had these 100

735
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:46,640
random event generators around the world

736
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:48,159
and they would measure how they were

737
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:49,919
different from statistics statistics

738
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:52,320
from random under different world events

739
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:56,159
right and two hours before 9 11 happened

740
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,600
all of the random number generators

741
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:59,600
started going crazy and they weren't

742
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,520
doing randomness anymore why because it

743
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:03,760
was a global event that connected us all

744
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:06,559
mentally okay and it started changing

745
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,919
the randomness of these random event

746
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,679
generators all over the world and that

747
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,840
was two hours before 9 11 before the

748
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,320
plane first plane hits okay so so

749
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,080
there's an amplification effect of group

750
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,399
energy i just want to say that

751
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,320
how we interpret that there's an effect

752
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,240
there and you and you want to include

753
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,480
that in a model which i'm trying to do

754
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:26,480
and i'm not saying my model is right but

755
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:27,760
there's an effect there and we need to

756
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,320
look at that

757
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:32,640
agree with you right so that's another

758
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,200
dean raiden experiment along with roger

759
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,760
nelson and other people but

760
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:40,080
those are the two primary guys right

761
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:42,000
here's my point on the on the law of

762
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:43,120
attraction

763
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:44,640
i'm not sure

764
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:47,520
scotch taping a picture of a range rover

765
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,600
to your refrigerator is going to get you

766
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:51,919
any closer to god

767
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,320
and and i'm not even sure

768
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:57,200
that it won't impede your progress in

769
00:29:02,310 --> 00:28:59,600
terms of getting closer to god

770
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,320
and i say that to be kind of provocative

771
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:04,480
in a way because i i think we need to

772
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,960
make a distinction between the physical

773
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:09,520
the metaphysical and the spiritual

774
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:10,399
because

775
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,360
a lot of people that i respect who are

776
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:15,760
in the spiritual camp are kind of

777
00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:18,000
jumping over the metaphysical and saying

778
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:20,559
don't get too yeah that's real but don't

779
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,039
get too hung up on it and what i hear a

780
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,200
lot out of the law of attraction is yeah

781
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,720
you know take the picture of the range

782
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,039
rover to your refrigerator

783
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,520
i don't think that's the point

784
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:32,640
yeah

785
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,840
right

786
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,440
well a lot of the law of attraction also

787
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,440
has to do with

788
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:39,600
what they call the emotional ladder

789
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:41,679
and most people are stuck

790
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,559
in an area where they're

791
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,000
you know on the bottom half of the lab

792
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:47,919
which we would consider the more

793
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,960
negative energies more negative emotions

794
00:29:54,310 --> 00:29:52,880
and and part of the story is is they

795
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:54,320
want to move you to the top of the

796
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,520
ladder so

797
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,760
so part of the big picture of the law of

798
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,120
attraction is

799
00:30:02,149 --> 00:30:00,960
well you have to choose what emotional

800
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:02,159
state you're in and that's part of your

801
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:03,840
focus and as soon as you can start

802
00:30:09,510 --> 00:30:06,720
focusing including meditation helps you

803
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,520
gain focus engineering and you know

804
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,200
scientists are very focused because we

805
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,200
have to stay very focused right so those

806
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,600
are all focusing techniques um including

807
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,440
meditation so i would say law of

808
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:19,440
attraction is about changing your focus

809
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:20,880
so that you're getting to a more

810
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:22,880
positive emotional state

811
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,520
and by the way if you have a positive

812
00:30:28,549 --> 00:30:26,960
emotional state

813
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:28,559
it can be very big

814
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,480
and that can affect and i have a whole

815
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,559
chapter on that in my book

816
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,039
that amplifying a positive emotional

817
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:37,200
state is the biggest thing that you can

818
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:38,080
do

819
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,200
to create

820
00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:41,919
a connection to like-minded things

821
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:43,120
because

822
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:45,679
think about the complexity of thought

823
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,440
without emotions versus with emotions

824
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,320
if you can amplify the emotional state

825
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:54,080
then you're going to

826
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,399
succeed in connecting here's i'm going

827
00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:58,640
to give you an example from pre-sentence

828
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,919
if every time you made a choice every

829
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:04,000
time you made a choice a decision about

830
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:05,200
something

831
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:07,519
and then you say oh i should have done

832
00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:09,919
differently there late retrospectively

833
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:12,000
right but every time you do that and you

834
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,200
and you think that that was the right

835
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,840
choice you should celebrate

836
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:18,240
why because when you're making from a

837
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,600
retro causation perspective and

838
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,360
pre-sentence perspective

839
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,840
you can feel that success stance that

840
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,320
happy dance in the future

841
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:28,159
for the path that you took when you're

842
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,840
making the decision

843
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:31,679
so there is a concrete thing that you

844
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:33,279
can test you could say

845
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,399
you know

846
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,080
amplify the positive emotions of the

847
00:31:40,389 --> 00:31:38,720
success success choices i've made

848
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:40,399
and you can make a better decisions

849
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,760
every time you do that it's a it's a

850
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:43,600
retrocausation application of

851
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,320
retrocausation

852
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,080
and that's law of attraction

853
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:50,799
that's a law of attraction i i'm not i'm

854
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:54,000
not convinced that that's right

855
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:55,760
you'd have to run you'd have to run a

856
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:58,240
bunch of experiments and prove it to me

857
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:01,039
you know another skeptico show that i i

858
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,159
sent you and i really like tim grimes

859
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,440
but his book the joy of not thinking

860
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:09,360
and he writes a lot he writes a lot

861
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,279
about law of attraction but his

862
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:13,200
interpretation law of interaction is a

863
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,880
lot closer to mine

864
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,799
it's a lot closer to the spiritual

865
00:32:21,269 --> 00:32:18,960
interpretation of it which is the

866
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,279
fundamental spiritual questions is

867
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:24,559
who am i and the related question for us

868
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,039
in a modern age is who have i become

869
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,200
what has that monkey mind that's

870
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:31,919
constantly racing around and being

871
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:34,159
active and has this myth of progress

872
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:37,440
mentality what has that made me think i

873
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,200
am so for tim i think and my interpreter

874
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,519
the law of attraction is

875
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,559
only go as far as your first

876
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:49,440
point doug which is that the science

877
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:51,840
seems to be pointing to

878
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:55,760
an ultimate reality to law of attraction

879
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:57,919
but we don't have the foggiest freaking

880
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:59,919
idea what that means

881
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,480
and to try and operationalize it at this

882
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,799
point to try and find minis at this

883
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:07,039
point to try and shut up and calculate

884
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:08,559
at this point

885
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:11,360
we're just not anywhere close to it and

886
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:13,760
as soon as we think we are we have all

887
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:16,000
these human factors that kind of get in

888
00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,840
the way well

889
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,679
this idea of stopping and thinking i

890
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:21,840
think is is really like a critical idea

891
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,880
okay so i i'm agreeing with this guy and

892
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,799
when i talk about meditation

893
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,279
the purpose of meditation

894
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,120
is to stop thinking

895
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,039
most people don't get there in fact i'm

896
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,720
not very good at it

897
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:36,880
and the point is if you meditate and

898
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,640
then all of a sudden you realize that

899
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:41,279
you haven't been sleeping

900
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,559
because you're sitting up you're not

901
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,640
sleeping and all of a sudden an hour is

902
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:46,880
gone and you have no sense of time

903
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,760
happening

904
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:49,919
you you've actually kind of like stepped

905
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:51,679
out of time and you're in a no thought

906
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:52,640
zone

907
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:56,080
and and and a lot of ancient meditation

908
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:57,200
techniques that they didn't know

909
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,880
anything about quantum computing

910
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:00,960
get to the place of the void the no

911
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:03,519
thought perspective okay

912
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:04,480
and

913
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,279
from that perspective

914
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:09,520
you essentially you're

915
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,159
you're i guess you're like a god because

916
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:13,839
you're not in time anymore you're

917
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:16,079
touching everything at once

918
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:18,240
you've stepped out of space and time

919
00:34:22,629 --> 00:34:20,240
and so

920
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,639
thought really a lot of our thought is

921
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:23,919
sequential

922
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,560
and if you step out of time then you're

923
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:28,560
not thinking anymore you're in this no

924
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:30,079
thought zone

925
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:30,879
and

926
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:33,200
that is the state of beingness you would

927
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:34,399
call it

928
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:35,440
okay

929
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,720
but that beingness i talk about it

930
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:40,879
in my book i call it verb noun that

931
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:42,399
beingness

932
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:44,800
is is a noun it's the state that you're

933
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,520
in but it's also a verb in the sense

934
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:49,599
that it can affect whatever state you're

935
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:51,520
in can affect

936
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,399
people around you and and

937
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,480
your reality your sense of reality and

938
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,079
who you are it can

939
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:00,160
it does all those things so you have to

940
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:02,079
have a model of no thought as well as

941
00:35:07,589 --> 00:35:05,359
thought okay and

942
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,599
that's part of the

943
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:09,839
maybe it's part of the system part of

944
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:12,240
the part of my model that is least

945
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,520
well-defined

946
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:15,599
but no thought definitely has to do with

947
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,480
not being in time okay and a lot of my

948
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,640
model has to do with how do you step out

949
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,320
of time because that's probably the real

950
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:25,119
critical aspect of what i'm trying to do

951
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:26,960
with this model is is to look at

952
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:29,200
temporal mechanics right

953
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:31,119
and temporal mechanics is the key to all

954
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,480
of this okay i definitely

955
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,400
applaud the fact that you're pushing

956
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,960
things in this direction what i always

957
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,640
kind of look out for though is kind of

958
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:42,640
the backdoor materialism

959
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:46,240
yeah now i got it so let me turn it into

960
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:49,119
something that i can

961
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,599
engineer but i tell you what that this

962
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:53,359
is kind of a really interesting point in

963
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,400
the interview for me because i think

964
00:36:01,030 --> 00:35:58,400
we've brought it up to the point where

965
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:01,040
we're ready to talk about

966
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:02,240
google

967
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,240
and their strong ai

968
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:06,560
and the interview i did with andrew

969
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:09,680
smart and your input into that interview

970
00:36:13,910 --> 00:36:12,160
which was to really sharpen our focus

971
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:13,920
because this is the topic now i think

972
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:15,920
that people can start digging their

973
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,560
teeth into because it's hitting us right

974
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,880
where we live kind of stuff are robots

975
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:22,640
going to take over the world are we

976
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:25,680
living in a simulation uh to what extent

977
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:28,640
are our freedoms being manipulated and

978
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:31,119
socially engineered by what we search

979
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:33,599
for what pops up in our ads

980
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,240
and all this other stuff so i guess the

981
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:39,119
question that i kind of hit andrew with

982
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:40,400
at one point

983
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:43,680
and that's the turing test

984
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:44,960
versus

985
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:47,760
what i call the soul phone test

986
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:49,040
yeah

987
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:50,960
and then the third is what i'd call the

988
00:36:53,670 --> 00:36:52,640
god test

989
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:53,680
so

990
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:56,960
i i i can expound on those more but

991
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,960
you're smiling like you already kind of

992
00:37:01,829 --> 00:37:00,800
get where i'm going with that so why

993
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:01,839
don't you

994
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:03,920
take over and and tell me what you're

995
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:05,040
thinking

996
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,280
well you know ai and ai right

997
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:10,880
is trying to mimic the brain and they

998
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:12,400
say well the brain is classical computer

999
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,920
so we should be able to

1000
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,599
to build a computer that does the same

1001
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:17,599
thing right well if that's a false

1002
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:18,800
assumption then you have to say well

1003
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:21,520
what is ai doing and how is what the

1004
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,040
brain is doing differently than that

1005
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,680
right so this this is the first step of

1006
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:27,359
this discussion about

1007
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:30,240
what what about ai well i believe that

1008
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,880
ai is simulating a high dimensional

1009
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:34,079
space

1010
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:36,640
and it's useful it's simulating it

1011
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:38,800
but i believe that the human mind

1012
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,920
actually has a high dimensional space a

1013
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:43,920
quantum high dimensional space

1014
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,240
and any time is as you know feynman has

1015
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,400
said you know and other people have said

1016
00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:50,160
that if you're trying to simulate a

1017
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:52,480
quantum system you need a quantum system

1018
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:55,440
to do it you can't simulate that's what

1019
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:56,480
this

1020
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:58,480
quantum supremacy thing is all about as

1021
00:38:02,069 --> 00:37:59,680
soon as you get to a certain size

1022
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:02,079
problem you can't simulate it anymore

1023
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,079
you can only actually have a physical

1024
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,000
quantum system to do it and the reason

1025
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,160
is you actually have the quantum

1026
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:10,079
dimensions there in the quantum computer

1027
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,000
where if otherwise you're simulating the

1028
00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,839
quantum dimensions right it's a big

1029
00:38:16,829 --> 00:38:15,359
difference right

1030
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:16,839
and

1031
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:18,880
specifically the same thing is true for

1032
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:21,280
ai they're simulating a high dimensional

1033
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:23,599
space they don't actually have one

1034
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,480
so they would fail the turing test about

1035
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:28,400
performance

1036
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:29,920
the turing test you could say well what

1037
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:31,040
kind of turing tests are we talking

1038
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:32,480
about well if it's some simple thing

1039
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:35,119
that's closed hey you can easily win it

1040
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:36,640
but now you know

1041
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,560
what was the guy andrew said well we're

1042
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,560
going to put the drawing test for lsd

1043
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:42,800
right or the turing test for remote

1044
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,599
viewing or the curing test for

1045
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,440
near-death experiences you pick what

1046
00:38:50,150 --> 00:38:49,119
level of turing test you want to have

1047
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:50,160
right

1048
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:51,280
and so

1049
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,520
model it's big enough to include

1050
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,119
all possible turing tests that we can

1051
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:59,680
imagine then you realize well then you

1052
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,119
can't actually

1053
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:04,400
have a simulated

1054
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:06,800
um consciousness you actually have to

1055
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:08,960
have those dimensions there right

1056
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:11,280
and part of the book is going through

1057
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:14,560
that story in a more you know concise

1058
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,800
step-by-step way to get you to the point

1059
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,320
where you go oh if we really have high

1060
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:20,320
dimensional space and consciousness and

1061
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,520
mind is really part of that high

1062
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:22,960
dimensional space well no wonder we're

1063
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:25,200
so smart and in fact

1064
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:26,880
i could argue that we wouldn't

1065
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:29,119
evolutionary wise we wouldn't exist

1066
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,880
unless it did

1067
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,880
and people like

1068
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,480
rupert sheldrick is saying morphogenic

1069
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,480
resonant uses the same thing it's kind

1070
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:38,640
of like morphogenic resonance is the law

1071
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:40,880
of attraction at the molecular level so

1072
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:42,560
if you say well molecular you know law

1073
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:43,839
of attraction you don't believe in it

1074
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:46,720
well do you believe in evolution and

1075
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,800
your dna and law of attract you know

1076
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,480
morphogenic resonance it's the same

1077
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,640
thing so you've got to tie all these

1078
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:54,480
things together and if you don't you're

1079
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,920
only like solving part of the problem

1080
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,920
you're not solving the whole problem so

1081
00:40:01,589 --> 00:39:59,760
so how's that for a big enough swatch at

1082
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:01,599
you that's your question

1083
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:04,720
perfect it was great and uh i

1084
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:06,079
i want to pick up on the last thing you

1085
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:07,119
said because i think it's super

1086
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:09,680
important although it's kind of

1087
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,400
abstract obtuse a little bit in that if

1088
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,839
you can't tie it all together you have

1089
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,359
to tie it all together

1090
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:16,880
and we

1091
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:19,760
right it somehow perfect yeah

1092
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:21,599
hey i don't even know that i my answer

1093
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:23,520
is right but i'm at least saying here is

1094
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:24,800
part of the problem that we're trying to

1095
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,079
solve the whole problem that we're

1096
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:27,599
trying to solve not part of great and

1097
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,440
that's what i really respect because

1098
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:33,280
i'm going to try and put it together

1099
00:40:36,790 --> 00:40:34,800
differently but

1100
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:36,800
before i do that i got to at least say

1101
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:38,800
at least this guy is

1102
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:41,200
framed up the problem

1103
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,319
in a different

1104
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:43,760
way trying to

1105
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:46,720
in a way that that is obviously a step

1106
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:49,119
forward and again the step forward is

1107
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,800
you're at least dealing with extended

1108
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:53,440
consciousness which is a reality you're

1109
00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:55,520
at least your connection between morphic

1110
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:57,839
genetic morphogenetic fields and law of

1111
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,160
attraction is brilliant i mean you're

1112
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:02,640
one thousand percent right it's you can

1113
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,160
believe in the law of attraction or not

1114
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:06,000
believe in the law of attraction but

1115
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,680
there's a reality there that is

1116
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:09,359
supported by the science that you can't

1117
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,680
kind of get away from the problem is

1118
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,280
again the range rover on the

1119
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:15,680
refrigerator and the way that translates

1120
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,079
to me back to the turing test is i think

1121
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:20,640
the turing test is incredibly useful and

1122
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:22,079
let's again remind people what the

1123
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,000
turing test is if i can write a computer

1124
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:29,040
program that fools you into thinking

1125
00:41:32,790 --> 00:41:31,520
that i'm intelligent then i'm

1126
00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:32,800
intelligent

1127
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:35,280
that's it yeah in some domain

1128
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:38,560
forget even the domain it's like

1129
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,680
that's the basics of the idea and i

1130
00:41:46,829 --> 00:41:43,760
think with what that's what's useful

1131
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:46,839
about that is it kind of provides a

1132
00:41:53,109 --> 00:41:50,400
baseline of cognitive ability that we're

1133
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,119
a lot of times afraid to go to you know

1134
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:55,760
so the example i always use is like uh

1135
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,640
online chess you know so like you can do

1136
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:00,480
the touring test

1137
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:03,839
anytime you want just log on to

1138
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:06,640
an online chess portal and play the

1139
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:07,839
computer

1140
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:09,920
and pretend that you don't know if

1141
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:13,040
there's a person there or a computer and

1142
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:14,800
then you'll go wow

1143
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:16,960
this guy i'm playing or this girl i'm

1144
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:20,000
playing is super smart i can never even

1145
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:23,119
get a game off this person well i i

1146
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,000
think that's a pretty useful baseline in

1147
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,640
terms of cognitive capabilities and i

1148
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:30,640
think the problem one of the problems

1149
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:33,520
that it really brings up is that

1150
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:36,640
we can see in these narrow areas you

1151
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:39,520
call the domain you know in these narrow

1152
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:41,839
domains which i don't think are that

1153
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:43,839
narrow and i think there's more and more

1154
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:45,040
of them

1155
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:49,599
every day that are popping up that are

1156
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,520
below our level because they're not

1157
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,440
putting them in our face they're just

1158
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:55,760
implementing them and using them so

1159
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,359
whether it's search or whether it's all

1160
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,200
this other stuff we could talk about

1161
00:43:01,990 --> 00:43:01,200
what do we do with the fact that you

1162
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,000
know

1163
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:04,960
if you advance even in a narrow domain

1164
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:07,839
the cognitive capabilities of an

1165
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:11,200
artificial intelligence that is powerful

1166
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:13,200
and you tie that to the diversity

1167
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:15,040
problem and it's

1168
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:17,359
it's like there's a lot of power there

1169
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:20,880
well i see a common theme about from you

1170
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:23,599
in in in our conversations and other

1171
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:26,319
conversations about you know people

1172
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,200
abusing their technology and power

1173
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,359
you know and so i think that's part of

1174
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,079
your concern about the big companies who

1175
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:35,920
have control over

1176
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:38,079
many facets of our life you know the

1177
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:39,839
microsofts and the googles and the who

1178
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:41,359
else you know who else is doing the

1179
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:42,640
facebooks

1180
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:45,520
and so i so i respect that

1181
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:47,920
any technology

1182
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:49,760
as simple as simple as like facial

1183
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,119
recognition

1184
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:53,599
you know can be abused

1185
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:56,000
right you think oh that would be good

1186
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:57,280
but

1187
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,079
same thing with dna people are

1188
00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:02,319
putting their dna in these these

1189
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:04,160
databases and now all of a sudden

1190
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:05,599
they're having

1191
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,440
consequences from that they're finding

1192
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:10,079
some relative they had was is was you

1193
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,560
know was was bad you know unintended

1194
00:44:16,390 --> 00:44:14,160
consequences so the question is how do

1195
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:16,400
we how do we take any technology and not

1196
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:17,599
abuse it

1197
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:19,440
and that's a concern i hear that's a

1198
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,960
concern for you and it's a concern for

1199
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:22,880
me too so

1200
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:25,040
though

1201
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:27,359
that's great that's not that's not my

1202
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:29,920
concern and and if if there is a i mean

1203
00:44:32,950 --> 00:44:32,000
no it is in that subject though right

1204
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:32,960
you're interested in that subject

1205
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,560
whether it's a concern you're interested

1206
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:36,319
in that right because a lot here's where

1207
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:39,280
i go with that and if this is a re-run

1208
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,560
recurring theme through our conversation

1209
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:44,480
then great because bringing it to the

1210
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:49,280
surface maybe moves us forward is that

1211
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:52,000
i think sometimes you stop at the

1212
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:53,440
metaphysical

1213
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,839
and not and aren't fully considering the

1214
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,400
spiritual so i wrote a book a couple

1215
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:00,800
years ago why evil matters i think this

1216
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,280
is a why evil matters question yeah

1217
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:07,839
because google is in the social

1218
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,079
engineering business

1219
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:12,960
whether they like it or not

1220
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:15,599
because no matter how they do their

1221
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,000
search thing and no matter who we all

1222
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:20,240
see it right we go to duckduckgo if we

1223
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:23,680
want a legit search and we'd let google

1224
00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:26,800
kind of wikipedia it if we don't care or

1225
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,119
if it's some generic kind of thing

1226
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:31,599
they demonetize they

1227
00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:32,480
are

1228
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,480
incredibly politically kind of

1229
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:36,640
influenced but here's the question doug

1230
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:39,760
the question is are they evil

1231
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:42,560
are they uh you know i i always

1232
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:45,280
reference uh annika lucas the woman i

1233
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:48,720
interviewed part of the dutrow cult in

1234
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:51,760
belgium six years old sold into a

1235
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:54,560
satanic ritual so and i always bring

1236
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,880
that up with people because i get people

1237
00:46:03,430 --> 00:45:59,520
uh and then they go oh no that's

1238
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:03,440
evil i get it so in this extended realm

1239
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:06,240
there are these forces we don't know

1240
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:07,599
what that is we don't know what the

1241
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,280
extended realm is but there is evil

1242
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,400
and that is a super important point

1243
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,200
because then the issue is not really

1244
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:19,440
you know is google in the social

1245
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:22,960
engineering business the question is

1246
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:26,720
are the people behind the a i

1247
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,040
evil that's ultimately what we want to

1248
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:30,720
know yeah

1249
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:32,560
so here i'll ask you the question a

1250
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:35,040
follow-up question for you

1251
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,400
is it evil

1252
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,160
because they

1253
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:40,160
purposely did this

1254
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:42,960
to manage those choices or was it

1255
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,040
accidental and they didn't realize the

1256
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:46,800
logical consequences of it that's what i

1257
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:47,920
was trying to talk about logical

1258
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,359
consequences right

1259
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:51,920
and so so which which one is which one

1260
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:54,480
is evil are all all applications of that

1261
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,319
technology evil or only the ones that

1262
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,400
they consciously made the choice to to

1263
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:00,319
manipulate people with it

1264
00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:03,359
i think in order to answer that question

1265
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,079
we have to move another level up you

1266
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,040
know so you moved us you moved us from

1267
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:11,599
the physical computing to the

1268
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,480
metaphysical and that's the good thing

1269
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:16,640
but then the next level up is the

1270
00:47:21,990 --> 00:47:19,599
spiritual and that's why i said the soul

1271
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,000
phone thing and i don't know if you had

1272
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:25,440
a chance to kind of look at that but

1273
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,630
so do you know who gary schwartz is at

1274
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,480
the university of arizona

1275
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,280
okay and do you know uh mart's mark

1276
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:36,960
pitstick are you familiar with the soul

1277
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:39,920
phone i i've heard the term yeah and i

1278
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,280
think from something that you've told me

1279
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:43,040
about it

1280
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:44,079
and yeah

1281
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:46,160
so gary and mark

1282
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,760
have done

1283
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:49,599
what you beautifully summarized the last

1284
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,880
time around

1285
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,280
taken like dean raden's ex double slit

1286
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:56,000
consciousness experiment said okay

1287
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:57,920
we'll put it in a box here and we'll

1288
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:00,160
just and now we can measure

1289
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:03,920
whether there's an outside effect by two

1290
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:06,400
and now wouldn't it be great if we could

1291
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:07,680
talk to

1292
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,000
disincarnated spirits wouldn't it be

1293
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,760
great if you could talk to your dad

1294
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:13,599
who's passed away wouldn't it be great

1295
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,040
if you could talk to your grandfather

1296
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:17,440
and let's put a keyboard on this thing

1297
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:18,880
which is one of the things they god

1298
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:20,720
depleted

1299
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,280
to me this is classic otherwise it's

1300
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:25,920
otherwise it's morse code right

1301
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,040
well

1302
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,680
no no the other otherwise it's uh yes no

1303
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:31,680
questions yeah right

1304
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:34,640
it's a misstep in my opinion because

1305
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:37,760
we're not it's it's substituting the

1306
00:48:44,549 --> 00:48:40,880
metaphysical for the spiritual

1307
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:44,559
we don't understand what these extended

1308
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:48,079
realms are we don't understand the mind

1309
00:48:54,549 --> 00:48:51,920
of god we can try and get closer to

1310
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,559
doing that and that can inform how we

1311
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,800
might look at the metaphysical but we

1312
00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:58,400
can't start

1313
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:01,520
with the you know shut up and calculate

1314
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:04,000
thing first d do you

1315
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:05,839
do you feel me on that or do you agree

1316
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:10,079
or disagree no i i i agree and and

1317
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,440
you know if you look at the soul phone

1318
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:13,359
they're trying to do what our brain is

1319
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:14,480
doing right

1320
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,240
somehow our conscious if you believe

1321
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,160
that the consciousness and spiritual

1322
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,319
being who we are separate from our brain

1323
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,559
you go well somehow the brain

1324
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:24,480
allows us to interact

1325
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,119
with that consciousness and that soul

1326
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:29,119
and that spiritualness of us and

1327
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,800
sometimes we get insights from our

1328
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,720
higher self or whoever

1329
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:35,040
um and it shows up in our life you know

1330
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:36,319
we

1331
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:40,400
therefore

1332
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:42,480
we we miss getting run over by a truck

1333
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,680
you know something like that you know

1334
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:48,079
those kinds of coincidences right

1335
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:50,160
so the point is is that the soul phone

1336
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:51,920
is just trying to do what any pk

1337
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:54,880
experiment is it says how do we get to

1338
00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:57,119
the fidelity that we have with our mind

1339
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,400
and brain where it's very high bandwidth

1340
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,160
so high bandwidth that i can move my

1341
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:04,480
finger when i want to i can blink my

1342
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:06,480
eyes when i want to i can move around in

1343
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:09,760
the physical world what if we had

1344
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,960
an electronic device that was just has

1345
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:15,200
the same fidelity as sort of as a blank

1346
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,160
brain

1347
00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:18,079
and we could have souls visit in there

1348
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:20,000
and they could like communicate with us

1349
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:23,440
i mean i've had that idea i mean that's

1350
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:26,319
people would want to talk to people okay

1351
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,160
well we already sort of have that we

1352
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,559
have them we have channels

1353
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:32,400
we have people who have who can

1354
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:34,079
communicate with souls because they're

1355
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:36,400
kind of like having this conversation on

1356
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:38,079
both sides of the fence

1357
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:39,280
um

1358
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,880
so people people are already doing that

1359
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:44,480
and they think it's weird because

1360
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:47,119
there's a channel there or we have a

1361
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,319
person who has a who

1362
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:52,240
you know about walk-ins right

1363
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:55,040
walk-in says i've had this brain and

1364
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:57,200
this consciousness up to this point

1365
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:58,800
and now

1366
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:01,680
some other soul is in here and it's not

1367
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:03,440
the original soul

1368
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:04,480
okay

1369
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,760
and there's a book out there that i

1370
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,839
quoted in my book says they think that

1371
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:09,440
ten percent of the world or seventeen

1372
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:11,200
percent of the world are walk-ins you

1373
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:14,720
know and hey don't and if and

1374
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,480
and i see that you're laughing because

1375
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:18,960
you probably agree with some of this

1376
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:21,680
but i personally know two walk-ins okay

1377
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:23,920
and they know when it happened okay and

1378
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:26,480
they're spiritual beings so so the point

1379
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:28,960
is how do we account for that in your

1380
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:32,559
model too in your turing model

1381
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,359
well

1382
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,440
during tests of consciousness

1383
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,119
are you familiar are you familiar with

1384
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:39,520
the hungry ghost thing

1385
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:41,839
uh no what is the hungry ghost well the

1386
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,040
the hungry ghost is kind of a series of

1387
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:47,040
experiments kind of ad hoc experiments

1388
00:51:51,750 --> 00:51:49,200
and stuff that was done

1389
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:51,760
hey man those spirits they can with

1390
00:51:58,670 --> 00:51:52,800
you

1391
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:58,680
and create deceptions that look

1392
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:00,720
indistinguishable from real

1393
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,559
communication

1394
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:04,640
i'm not saying that that's a reason not

1395
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:05,839
to do it

1396
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,680
but again that's why i brought up the

1397
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,079
julia mossbridge thing yeah all this

1398
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:12,480
stuff is highly dependent on all these

1399
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:16,000
other factors that wind up looking like

1400
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,280
very human factors you know what is your

1401
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:21,200
true motivation

1402
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:24,000
what is your spiritual

1403
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:25,040
deep

1404
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:26,800
and your values yeah

1405
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:28,880
values like times

1406
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:32,720
ten you know what i mean so it's like

1407
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:36,480
again i i love the the metaphysical i'm

1408
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:38,640
glad that they're doing the soul phone

1409
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:41,520
experiment but if they're not

1410
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,200
of the right heart

1411
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:45,359
if they haven't if they're not tackling

1412
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:47,839
the spiritual question then you can

1413
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:50,960
flush it down the freaking toilet along

1414
00:52:57,430 --> 00:52:54,559
with a 17 percent statistic it is

1415
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:57,440
meaningless to say that 17 percent we

1416
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:00,800
don't know what a walk-in is

1417
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:04,240
why would we put a freaking 10

1418
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:05,839
17

1419
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:08,000
we don't know that so i guess that's

1420
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:11,280
what i'm advocating on this thing is

1421
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:14,079
pump the brakes a little bit and step up

1422
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,000
and look at the bigger

1423
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:18,640
truly the spiritual

1424
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,079
topics yeah and approach it from a kind

1425
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,960
of scientific way i think the amount of

1426
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:26,880
information that's been accumulated

1427
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:30,559
about near-death experiences point to

1428
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:33,599
some spiritual truths i think the same

1429
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,599
thing about reincarnation after death

1430
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:36,880
communication

1431
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,119
that should be our starting point not

1432
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:41,359
whether we can do a freaking cell phone

1433
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,920
i agree i agree 100

1434
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,079
i believe that dreaming and near-death

1435
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,920
experiences and

1436
00:53:51,589 --> 00:53:49,520
and the kinds of things you do when you

1437
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,599
when you when you get in in a nirvana

1438
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,760
state for meditation right all of those

1439
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:54,960
things are

1440
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,119
the the

1441
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:59,440
tasting the divine touching the divine

1442
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,200
the divine is

1443
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:03,359
not in linear time thought the

1444
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:05,440
sequential thought it's the state of

1445
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:07,680
being who you really are and by the way

1446
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,920
we do that every night when we dream so

1447
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:12,160
again i advocate doing lucid dreaming in

1448
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:13,440
fact one of the things now that i'm not

1449
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,520
writing my book anymore is i'm gonna go

1450
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,800
take a lucid dreaming class i've been

1451
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:18,640
wanting to do it for years and

1452
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,800
and i'm gonna do it okay and the reason

1453
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:22,319
is is that i can get in touch with my

1454
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,359
higher self my my spiritual side if you

1455
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:27,280
want to call it but it's also

1456
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:30,319
my my spiritual side is the non-thinking

1457
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:32,160
side of my

1458
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:33,839
of my beingness

1459
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:35,920
but but my thinking side is also part of

1460
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,599
that beingness okay it's just whether

1461
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,040
it's in time or not that where i'm

1462
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,280
focusing so

1463
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:44,079
so that's awesome on a personal level

1464
00:54:50,309 --> 00:54:47,440
and i think also on a scientific level

1465
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:50,319
yeah you have to keep exploring you

1466
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:52,160
understand where the action is it's in

1467
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:54,319
this extended consciousness realm so why

1468
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:55,119
not

1469
00:55:00,069 --> 00:54:58,000
learn as much as we can about it i i

1470
00:55:01,270 --> 00:55:00,079
guess the way that you know because i

1471
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,280
feel like

1472
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,880
we could go on to talk about texas

1473
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:04,160
instruments and

1474
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:07,119
you know it's a bomb making company i

1475
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,799
always remember this one old guy you

1476
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:10,240
know wait he just kind of caught me

1477
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:11,440
walking through the hallways you know

1478
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,280
because he'll have those miles and vials

1479
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,200
of these long hallways

1480
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:17,119
and he just shook his head and he goes

1481
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:18,720
i don't know what it is

1482
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,240
i've just always been around death and

1483
00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:22,319
destruction my whole life

1484
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:23,119
yeah

1485
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,520
well i think you know the arnold

1486
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:28,000
schwarzenegger robot killing robot of

1487
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:29,599
the future you know

1488
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,640
you know the

1489
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,480
military thinks they want killing robots

1490
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,480
okay but my belief is that and they're

1491
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,920
going to be probably effective in the

1492
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:37,839
battlefield um whether they're going to

1493
00:55:43,190 --> 00:55:38,559
be

1494
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:43,200
run amok like they did in the in the

1495
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:46,240
schwarzenegger movies i doubt it because

1496
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:47,760
because

1497
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:50,079
you know they had this singularity

1498
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,480
switch in those right and this this if

1499
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:54,480
you believe that consciousness is

1500
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,680
computers are getting to the point where

1501
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,280
they become self-conscious like in that

1502
00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,280
movie i don't believe that because i

1503
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,079
believe that we're simulating quant

1504
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,319
computers even if we have a quantum ai i

1505
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:06,960
don't think it will be that way so um so

1506
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:10,079
i i'm i'm i'm less concerned about the

1507
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:11,440
singularity

1508
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,119
and and does that mean we'll have

1509
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:15,599
killing robots we probably will i mean

1510
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:17,920
what are drones actual after all right

1511
00:56:22,710 --> 00:56:19,760
so um so

1512
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,720
so the point is is that and one point is

1513
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:24,640
by the way texas instruments sold their

1514
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,359
military group to raytheon so they're

1515
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,440
actually not in the business except for

1516
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:31,200
selling semiconductors to those people

1517
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,799
so just be aware of that

1518
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:34,400
from just from a point of reference that

1519
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,040
uh yeah we supported building

1520
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:39,920
uh missiles designs for missile co you

1521
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:42,160
know nose cones uh when i was there too

1522
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:45,119
back in the in the in the 80s and 90s so

1523
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,960
but realize they have sold their their

1524
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:48,480
military groups

1525
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,359
do you think there aren't still those

1526
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:53,680
deep dark doors that you can't go in and

1527
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:55,040
out of unless you

1528
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,640
there is a building there but ti doesn't

1529
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:58,640
own that building anymore it's raytheon

1530
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:00,720
at least

1531
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:02,720
yeah i i was across the hall from those

1532
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,160
people so yeah

1533
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:06,400
out of black programs you're closer to

1534
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:07,920
it than i do i just yeah i was right

1535
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:09,760
across the hall from him so i don't know

1536
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,760
anything about him except that

1537
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:13,839
and this is really like one of the

1538
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:15,520
points i did want to talk to you about

1539
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:17,359
because

1540
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,359
i love what you're saying about the

1541
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:21,839
schwarzenegger you know robots and the

1542
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:22,720
thing

1543
00:57:28,150 --> 00:57:26,480
andrew smart interview

1544
00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:28,160
and you really helped me kind of bring

1545
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,640
this to focus andrew smart and he's

1546
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:32,319
gonna have to serve as the stand-in for

1547
00:57:37,349 --> 00:57:34,480
google even though he's not he just

1548
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:37,359
works there but he's close enough yeah

1549
00:57:41,910 --> 00:57:39,520
they don't care they don't care about

1550
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:41,920
what you just said they don't really at

1551
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:43,920
the end of the day they don't care about

1552
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:45,280
singularity

1553
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,920
alls they care about is the turing test

1554
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:49,920
and they're going to win that over and

1555
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:53,040
over again so just so um technology yeah

1556
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,400
well just so i'm not

1557
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:56,319
you know totally obtuse

1558
00:58:01,910 --> 00:57:59,280
if i have a drone

1559
00:58:04,710 --> 00:58:01,920
and i can start applying

1560
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:04,720
you know face recognition

1561
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:07,119
basic decision making

1562
00:58:11,829 --> 00:58:08,640
uh

1563
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:11,839
non-lethal and lethal weapon use

1564
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:14,880
to that i am so far down the

1565
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:17,920
schwarzenegger curve that it really

1566
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,400
doesn't matter it comes back to the

1567
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:22,799
playing chess thing you know it doesn't

1568
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,000
take much to beat me at chess

1569
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:28,319
i mean it's not a deep blue kind of

1570
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:29,760
situation

1571
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:30,480
so

1572
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:33,359
isn't that a chess game for like 50 that

1573
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:34,799
will do it too you don't have to even go

1574
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:37,520
on the net to do it so that's really

1575
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:40,160
that that's really the concern there and

1576
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:42,960
the concern for me in talking to andrew

1577
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:44,240
is

1578
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:46,480
you know i brought up the metaphysical

1579
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,240
like you're there you're past the

1580
00:58:52,549 --> 00:58:50,319
metaphysical and and we're having this

1581
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:52,559
discussion of metaphysical spiritual and

1582
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,400
we're bouncing back and forth he is not

1583
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:56,160
there with the metaphysical i go what

1584
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,839
about consciousness extending beyond

1585
00:59:00,549 --> 00:58:59,280
bodily death we got overwhelming

1586
00:59:02,470 --> 00:59:00,559
evidence that you take the near-death

1587
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:02,480
experience reincarnation is like

1588
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,680
huh

1589
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:05,440
never thought of that

1590
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:07,119
i'm like well okay andrew i appreciate

1591
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:08,400
that you never thought it wouldn't that

1592
00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:11,760
be fundamental to your book that you

1593
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,559
just wrote on consciousness yeah lsd

1594
00:59:17,589 --> 00:59:16,240
touring test yeah

1595
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:17,599
well uh

1596
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:21,119
so he can he and again he represents

1597
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,720
google apple

1598
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:25,040
twitter facebook all of them

1599
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:27,200
they don't need to consider the

1600
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,079
metaphysical and they can really really

1601
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:33,440
screw up our world without ever dealing

1602
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:35,040
with any of that stuff let alone the

1603
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:38,079
spiritual and it may be not on purpose

1604
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:40,079
it may be not

1605
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,760
that we're going to particularly use

1606
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:43,440
this for evil but they're just going to

1607
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,319
have

1608
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,480
a net evil effects because they're doing

1609
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,000
it is what you're saying

1610
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:50,400
well what i'm saying is

1611
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:53,440
the only way really for us from our

1612
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:57,920
perspective to judge malicious intent

1613
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:01,200
is to judge the outcome we can't because

1614
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:04,160
it's obviously very easy for someone to

1615
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:05,440
disguise

1616
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:07,359
their malicious intent

1617
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:09,760
and it happens all the time we're so

1618
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:12,240
used to that we're sick of it we're like

1619
01:00:17,190 --> 01:00:14,880
you know when you do it once you do it

1620
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:17,200
twice you do it three times the burden

1621
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:19,920
of proof shifts now you have to prove to

1622
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:20,720
us

1623
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:32,799
of oops it got out of the lab sorry

1624
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:35,040
yeah i think i think

1625
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,319
there's

1626
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:38,400
more malicious intent especially about

1627
01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:40,319
like you said manipulating social

1628
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:42,640
engineering stuff and uh stuff like that

1629
01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:43,760
then

1630
01:00:48,069 --> 01:00:46,640
more naive people

1631
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:48,079
would understand

1632
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,480
so so i guess as i was gonna have ai are

1633
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:52,960
we gonna have ai and quantum computing

1634
01:00:57,990 --> 01:00:55,760
give us better ai i doubt that because

1635
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:58,000
they can't scale quantum computers yet

1636
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:59,599
see this is the thing is is that if you

1637
01:01:02,710 --> 01:01:01,520
look at the weight quantity again every

1638
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:02,720
time you have a physical system that's

1639
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:04,559
doing computing you have to have a

1640
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,640
physical infrastructure to support that

1641
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:09,359
computational system so a couple things

1642
01:01:14,549 --> 01:01:12,240
you know number one doug

1643
01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:14,559
you're the guy in the first interview

1644
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:16,960
and in reading your book who kind of got

1645
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:19,760
me off the moore's law thing

1646
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:22,720
because what you turned me on to is as

1647
01:01:26,549 --> 01:01:25,040
soon as we go quantum it's kind of a

1648
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,559
different scale

1649
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:28,480
and you know so now you're you're kind

1650
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:31,520
of waving your hand like haha yeah so

1651
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:33,760
you know you can't kind of mix those two

1652
01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,640
things

1653
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,319
you know the other thing i always

1654
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:38,079
reference that kind of brings it into

1655
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:41,040
focus is the flat earth thing

1656
01:01:47,190 --> 01:01:43,599
are you familiar with that oh yeah yeah

1657
01:01:49,829 --> 01:01:47,200
absolutely i mean it's it it's if it's

1658
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:49,839
the point is no amount of logic

1659
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:51,359
can convince these people otherwise

1660
01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:52,880
about flat earth right these flat

1661
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:54,799
earthers yeah but it's deeper than that

1662
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:57,280
see here's the deeper part

1663
01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:58,880
because i get a ton of really smart

1664
01:02:02,630 --> 01:01:59,839
people

1665
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:02,640
who contact me and want to do

1666
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:04,319
flat earth or want to talk about flat

1667
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:07,359
earth i got it in a debate with a guy

1668
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:10,000
you know smart guy graduated from lsu

1669
01:02:12,870 --> 01:02:11,280
you know that

1670
01:02:15,510 --> 01:02:12,880
you've never looked into it you know

1671
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,520
that's his that it's and i go

1672
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:17,760
dude i looked into it for about 10

1673
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,880
seconds i mean you know that that's all

1674
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:22,160
it it's it

1675
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:24,799
but here's the point

1676
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:27,440
it's in a way i think it relates exactly

1677
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:29,280
to what you're talking about because

1678
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:31,039
it's like one of the biggest

1679
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,240
uh

1680
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:34,319
alt media people that you'll hear talk

1681
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:36,400
about uh flat earth is a guy named eddie

1682
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:37,920
bravo

1683
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:40,319
and he's on the joe rogan show and sam

1684
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:43,119
tripoli has him on a show and he's uh a

1685
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:44,720
jujitsu guy

1686
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:49,039
now eddie bravo is an absolute genius at

1687
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:51,760
jiu-jitsu not only in executing it

1688
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:54,000
physically but he's actually devised a

1689
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:56,000
whole different system that is super

1690
01:03:00,309 --> 01:02:57,839
successful in this net

1691
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:00,319
eddie bravo's not a dumb guy

1692
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,599
he doesn't walk around and uh stumble

1693
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:06,000
over you know the the curb because he

1694
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:09,200
can't you know he functions fine the way

1695
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:11,359
he's processed

1696
01:03:18,230 --> 01:03:14,960
our myth of progress kind of world our

1697
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:18,240
shadow banning mona demonetization

1698
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:22,000
is to say your science it doesn't

1699
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:26,160
add up you keep saying one thing and

1700
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:29,520
then doing these evil things and then

1701
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:31,920
you're trying to convince me at some

1702
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:34,720
level that what i'm observing everything

1703
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:38,880
i'm experiencing is not what it is

1704
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:42,400
prove it to me it's an uber empiricism

1705
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:45,359
that i think you have to kind of respect

1706
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:48,640
at some level because the game to a lot

1707
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:51,039
of people the science game

1708
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:53,599
seems so incredibly rigged

1709
01:03:58,870 --> 01:03:56,640
that that's the only response is prove

1710
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:58,880
it to my satisfaction i'll be the judge

1711
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:01,920
or i'm out yeah i've thought about flat

1712
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:04,000
earth as what kind of evidence could you

1713
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:06,079
ever convince them right

1714
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:07,520
and there's nothing there's nothing that

1715
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:09,920
you can say to convince them

1716
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:12,799
not even wrong as that famous guy yeah

1717
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:13,680
yeah

1718
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:14,559
and

1719
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:25,270
why they're trying to justify their

1720
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:27,359
their stance you know i think they're

1721
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:33,270
so it probably comes it says more about

1722
01:04:35,910 --> 01:04:34,319
them

1723
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:35,920
than it says about science and then

1724
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:38,079
people say well it's about science right

1725
01:04:42,069 --> 01:04:40,480
so doug we've kind of gone

1726
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:42,079
around the world a couple times i feel

1727
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:43,119
in that way

1728
01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:44,799
it's kind of like the first interview

1729
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:45,839
but

1730
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,799
there's so much depth to this book deep

1731
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:50,240
reality

1732
01:04:55,430 --> 01:04:52,960
tell us what's one or two of the main

1733
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:55,440
takeaways that peop you want people to

1734
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:58,640
get from this book and from your work

1735
01:05:03,270 --> 01:04:59,760
all right

1736
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:05,510
we probably are not quantum computers

1737
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,119
you said you don't you don't like that

1738
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,000
terminology okay and i'm only using that

1739
01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:12,480
as a bridge to talk about the fact what

1740
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:14,000
is a quantum computer

1741
01:05:19,510 --> 01:05:16,640
it means that it's a hyperdimensional

1742
01:05:21,670 --> 01:05:19,520
thing right so humans are really from a

1743
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:21,680
spiritual perspective are probably

1744
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:24,480
really hyper dimensional beings if you

1745
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:26,079
would think about you know the you see

1746
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,000
the aura around saints and stuff like

1747
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:30,079
that right well that's just a matter of

1748
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:32,799
representation of how do you represent a

1749
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,240
spiritual being that's an infinite

1750
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:36,880
dimensional space or very gazillion

1751
01:05:40,630 --> 01:05:38,880
dimensional space in three dimensions

1752
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:40,640
well the best way you can think of it as

1753
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:42,079
a ball of light

1754
01:05:45,829 --> 01:05:43,599
right and so

1755
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:45,839
so if that's who we really are that's

1756
01:05:49,750 --> 01:05:47,520
the spirit you know the end story that

1757
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:49,760
you're looking for the spiritual side of

1758
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:50,400
it

1759
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:52,799
how do you back up from that through the

1760
01:05:58,710 --> 01:05:53,920
through the

1761
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:58,720
computational side of it and say well

1762
01:06:02,710 --> 01:06:01,280
that thing that set of dimensions that

1763
01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:02,720
we see as light

1764
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:05,440
is probably bits and the reason is is

1765
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:07,760
because if you have three bits you can

1766
01:06:12,549 --> 01:06:10,559
form a photon it's called a q-trit if

1767
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,559
you look it up you can find that that's

1768
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:14,559
what they think photons are as a q-trip

1769
01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:16,559
so it's a higher dimensional version of

1770
01:06:22,150 --> 01:06:19,520
a qubit okay and by the way in the

1771
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:22,160
geometric algebra math

1772
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:24,480
it's a boson it's a photon you know it

1773
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:26,319
looks like a boson so

1774
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:29,200
so my belief is that if you believe take

1775
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:31,359
away is here we have all these layers

1776
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:32,720
and the high level which is what you're

1777
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:34,240
interested in is the spiritual nature of

1778
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:35,839
humans that we're hyper dimensional

1779
01:06:38,950 --> 01:06:37,839
beings and we're not in our brain our

1780
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:38,960
brain is

1781
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:41,359
this bio bio

1782
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,240
biocomputer antenna transceiver

1783
01:06:48,630 --> 01:06:46,640
and and the real actions going on in the

1784
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,640
spiritual domain in our in this hybrid

1785
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:50,160
dimensional mind

1786
01:06:55,029 --> 01:06:52,480
um that's really not thought i mean it's

1787
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:55,039
thought yet no thought right it's it's

1788
01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:57,119
it's a it's a wave not a particle right

1789
01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:59,599
there's our beingness is is more like a

1790
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:01,520
wave than it is anything else but it's

1791
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:04,000
informational it's not energy

1792
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:06,799
and it's not in space and not in time so

1793
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:09,200
personally not technologically wise

1794
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:10,400
personally

1795
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,920
with that information what are you going

1796
01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:13,680
to do about it for your life that's the

1797
01:07:17,829 --> 01:07:15,200
big step that i'm trying to get people

1798
01:07:19,510 --> 01:07:17,839
to do is you don't have to

1799
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:19,520
you can unplug from all these social

1800
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,680
networks and not be affected by all and

1801
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:24,160
you can sit there and meditate and and

1802
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:25,760
figure out your own emotions and come up

1803
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,240
your internal state and evolve and

1804
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:30,640
improve your consciousness and become

1805
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:33,680
lucid dreamer and meditator and a zen

1806
01:07:37,670 --> 01:07:35,039
art zen

1807
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:37,680
monk and touch the touch the akashic

1808
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:40,079
records and do that all without ever

1809
01:07:43,750 --> 01:07:42,720
touching facebook or google okay you can

1810
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:43,760
do that

1811
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:46,319
i know people who have okay housewives

1812
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,720
who have gone up that spiritual ladder

1813
01:07:52,230 --> 01:07:50,240
like you wouldn't think that they could

1814
01:07:54,150 --> 01:07:52,240
anybody can do this so once you believe

1815
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:54,160
oh this is who we are everybody should

1816
01:07:57,510 --> 01:07:55,680
be interested in who we are and who they

1817
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:57,520
are individually and that's what i think

1818
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:59,359
you were talking about earlier is who

1819
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:00,799
who they really are what's their real

1820
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:02,880
who's what is their being what's what's

1821
01:08:06,470 --> 01:08:04,079
their purpose you know what what are

1822
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:06,480
they trying to do in their life and uh

1823
01:08:11,829 --> 01:08:09,839
and and love is these emotions are part

1824
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:11,839
of that because as soon as you realize

1825
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:13,359
everybody says oh if you're in the

1826
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:14,640
spiritual domain

1827
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:16,480
love is the ultimate ultimate love you

1828
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,319
know this this god-like love this

1829
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:20,400
mother-like love this near-death

1830
01:08:25,430 --> 01:08:22,880
experience love beyond any measure that

1831
01:08:27,030 --> 01:08:25,440
we can imagine and and that's the only

1832
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:27,040
truth there is

1833
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:28,239
and some people apply the word

1834
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:31,199
consciousness to that well again

1835
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:33,279
if if i start there

1836
01:08:35,910 --> 01:08:34,560
instead of

1837
01:08:38,630 --> 01:08:35,920
i sound like

1838
01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:38,640
a crazy person but if i start at the

1839
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:40,400
building up this description from the

1840
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:42,159
quantum from the classical computing and

1841
01:08:44,870 --> 01:08:43,440
limits of computing and quantum

1842
01:08:46,390 --> 01:08:44,880
computing and then realize hyper

1843
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,400
dimensional spaces and finally get to

1844
01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:48,480
the point where you can't represent you

1845
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:50,239
can't do these behaviors if you have a

1846
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:51,759
lower dimensional space then you go

1847
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,199
humans are

1848
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,199
we have all this magic all the spiritual

1849
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,040
magic that we can do because we're hyper

1850
01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:58,960
dimensional beings so so there's the big

1851
01:09:01,749 --> 01:09:00,719
picture and hopefully that meets the

1852
01:09:03,749 --> 01:09:01,759
kinds of

1853
01:09:07,030 --> 01:09:03,759
insights that you're looking for in your

1854
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:07,040
speakers that was awesome like i'm so

1855
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:09,839
with you in terms of uh

1856
01:09:13,749 --> 01:09:12,640
you know i'm not just sitting in a cave

1857
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,759
all day

1858
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:15,199
i'm not

1859
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:18,480
there's part of me that says you know

1860
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:21,199
that's probably a more direct path

1861
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,600
but it doesn't seem that way to me it

1862
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,440
doesn't feel that way to me and i have

1863
01:09:29,349 --> 01:09:27,839
to follow my intuition

1864
01:09:31,030 --> 01:09:29,359
and i kind of feel that that's what

1865
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:31,040
you're doing doug

1866
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:32,880
you you're because a lot of quote

1867
01:09:37,829 --> 01:09:35,359
quote-unquote spiritual people that blow

1868
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:37,839
past all this stuff and want to ignore

1869
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:39,920
all this stuff and just say oh it

1870
01:09:44,070 --> 01:09:43,040
doesn't matter it's all love and stuff

1871
01:09:46,550 --> 01:09:44,080
like that

1872
01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:46,560
kind of what i see you doing is kind of

1873
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:48,400
dragging them back

1874
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,040
through it you know and say this is how

1875
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,600
it works this is how it's practical yeah

1876
01:09:56,790 --> 01:09:55,920
this is how it's possible to do this

1877
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:56,800
yeah

1878
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:58,640
and i think that's i think whether

1879
01:10:02,709 --> 01:10:01,040
you're right or wrong on that

1880
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:02,719
i applaud that i think that's an

1881
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:05,520
important step you know in that

1882
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:08,800
you know but ignore it at your own peril

1883
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:09,920
you know

1884
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:13,840
ignore it at your own uh mooney cult or

1885
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:18,239
tm cult or christian cult you know

1886
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:19,760
ignore it

1887
01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:22,640
at your own peril is kind of what kind

1888
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:24,800
of what i hear you saying i hear you

1889
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:26,320
saying you know if we're going to talk

1890
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:29,600
let's be as precise as we can and here's

1891
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:31,840
my attempt at doing that

1892
01:10:35,350 --> 01:10:33,280
that's what i think deep reality

1893
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:35,360
connecting all the layers

1894
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:37,360
it's deep because it connects all these

1895
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:40,560
layers and all these topics as well so

1896
01:10:44,070 --> 01:10:42,320
it's it's deep and broad at the same

1897
01:10:46,229 --> 01:10:44,080
time

1898
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,239
well fantastic i

1899
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:48,400
worry that this

1900
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,719
amazing work that you've done won't

1901
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:52,239
possibly reach

1902
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:55,840
as big an audience as it should but then

1903
01:11:01,350 --> 01:10:58,560
how could that possibly matter

1904
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:01,360
it can only reach the people that it's

1905
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:04,880
supposed to reach and if this interview

1906
01:11:11,590 --> 01:11:08,159
helps that a little bit more then that's

1907
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:11,600
great but please do if you can check out

1908
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:13,679
this book and i think i think he'll be

1909
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:14,960
blown away

1910
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:16,880
and i think it's it's an important piece

1911
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:18,719
of the puzzle

1912
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,360
so thanks so much for coming on doug

1913
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:23,440
thanks again we'll have to do this

1914
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:24,880
occasionally

1915
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:27,360
whenever you get the itch to so so does

1916
01:11:33,189 --> 01:11:30,560
so did i uh did you give me the true

1917
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:33,199
true uh skeptical experience today

1918
01:11:37,669 --> 01:11:35,040
because you held my feet to the fire

1919
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:37,679
you got the treatment man believe me

1920
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:41,280
i didn't feel like it was too bad

1921
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:42,960
thanks again to doug matzke for joining

1922
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:45,280
me today on skeptico the one question

1923
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:47,120
i'd have to tee up from this interview

1924
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:47,840
is

1925
01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:57,040
are currently pushing ai so prominently

1926
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:59,120
into our life

1927
01:12:03,990 --> 01:12:01,679
are they evil let me know your thoughts

1928
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:04,000
jump on over to the skeptico forum if

1929
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:06,800
you like or drop me an email or find me

1930
01:12:11,430 --> 01:12:09,040
any way you will love to connect with

1931
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,440
all of you who listen to and contribute

1932
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:13,440
so much to this show

1933
01:12:17,540 --> 01:12:15,920
until next time take care and bye for

1934
01:12:31,140 --> 01:12:17,550
now